Experts and officials from around the world meet this week for a climate summit that their host, Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger, hopes will highlight the economic benefits of pursuing green technologies.
No more camp firesNo more coal,natural gas,propane to heat you homes they are fossil fuels.Where are you gonna get the electricity.Watch Mad MAX!!
The only way to stop global warming is to curtail the sessions of Congress and stop those deadly gases coming from the Capitol.
Thomas...Try Zimbabwe. No backwater, inbreed, confederate flag flying retards there... But they may eat you.
I found the intelligence of the people in Italy particularly high level with all the men continuously grabbing their balls and making obscene gestures to women passing by...and the people of Mexico are very bright...they're all coming here to mix with the inbred, confederate flag flying retards...not to mention Canada...Canadians are so sharp that they love blizzards.
Billy... trade you a coon hunt for a hog hunt.
Only if Ellie May and Jethro can come along...I gotta get them. They're swimmin in the cement pond.
Gaeia has declared humans as a useless infestation.
Hasn't the earth been warming since the last ice age????? Were there SUV's and coal power plants way back then?????????????????? Those cavemen had it sweeeeeet!!!
Why is the US always joined with another country and the comment made that these are the largest pollution or greenhouse gas contributors? Example, "US and China are the largest emitters". Let's stand up and be proud. The US is THE LARGEST CONTRIBUTOR to greenhouse gases. The number of people in denial on this forum is one of the reasons for our olympic standing. The sorry state of our auto industry is not because they didn't make small alternate fuel vehicles, but because we love our huge smog contributing macho machines.
Well, that's just great-- another idiot politician peddling his own agenda despite the fact that the people that voted for him want immediate action on other critical issues such as the economy, Iraq, etc... Did the overwhelming majority of his supporters vote him in because of environmental issues--NO! He needs to dive in with every economic "expert" he can find to get a major, sound plan (unlike the half-ass bailout plan) and get the US economy back on its feet.
I think this issue should be put on the back-burner. Do we really think China and India will follow our lead? They are worse polluters than we are. Just yesterday, we got our first big snowfall in South Korea (I work here, thanks to our wonderful economy). Like a kid, I opened my mouth and attempted to catch the snowflakes as they fell. I was warned by my Korean colleague not to do it as the snow came from the west (meaning China) and the snow was very polluted. And I have been to Beijing recently (May-right before the big earthquake)--- to the north of the city, near the airport, you couldn't help but breathe it-even with the car windows up. It reminded me of when my mother and I would take trips to big cities before the "Clean Air and Water Act" was passed in the mid-1960s--awful! The worst I remember was Richmond, Virginia. The Chinese had to shut down that entire industrial zone for the Olympics, it was that bad. Obama, fix the stuff you were voted to fix and then when that's done- fine, move on down the priority list. Don't be wasting more money--- Bush has all ready done enough of that over the last eight years!
Wait until the public finds out just who gets to pay the bill for a cap-and-trade tax system. Any business who has to pay to get credits for CO2 emissions will simply pass those costs onto the consumer or move those operations overseas.
Either way it will be a very regressive tax with the middle class picking up the tab.
"And he said his goal of $15 billion a year in incentives to get private capital moving towards clean energy technologies would produce five million green jobs "that pay well and can't be outsourced."And he said his goal of $15 billion a year in incentives to get private capital moving towards clean energy technologies would produce five million green jobs "that pay well and can't be outsourced.""
Hoy! Anybody get this part of The Article? I've been downsized and forced into a call center. I finally get another (good paying with the federal gov't) job in this depressed area, and find out it'll be gone in about 3 years max.
Also, Scott Roper, global warming generates extremes in weather, not necessarily springtime in the Artic. Haven't you seen today's articles regarding the melting of the glaciers on Kilimanjiro in Africa? In bloody, freakin' Africa? They are looking at water shortages, pronto. Other parts in the world, including our southwest, are going to follow.
Blueunicorn,
Did YOU read about the glaciers that are growing in size this year in Washington and Alaska? Did you read that the earth has been cooling for 12 years. Of course these facts cannot be reconciled with a "man made problem" because man hasn't been polluting more than ever the last 12 years. If the facts don't fit what you want to hear just ignore them or call them anomolies. Right? By the way computer models can't predict local weather 7 days out, so how can you put so much faith on computer models predicting the inter-workings of weather on a global scale years in the future?
Did YOU read about the glaciers that are growing in size this year in Washington and Alaska? Did you read that the earth has been cooling for 12 years. Of course these facts cannot be reconciled with a "man made problem" because man hasn't been polluting more than ever the last 12 years. If the facts don't fit what you want to hear just ignore them or call them anomolies. Right? By the way computer models can't predict local weather 7 days out, so how can you put so much faith on computer models predicting the inter-workings of weather on a global scale years in the future?
Well I did not hear about glaciers in Washington and/or Alaska is “growing in size” as you put it considering ice everywhere on the globe, including Alaska that ice glaciers and sea ice is melting at an exponential rate. My guess is that this so-called info you speak of is indeed fictional and/or you got it from some lame ass republican propaganda source, such as like Fox Noise in which case still remains regardless to be fictional. The only thing I see growing in size is stupidity of those few people that think they can come in hear and reach those that have an IQ level equivalent to that of a lemming. In which to those that speak of such ignorance says volumes and regardless of your attempts to reach retards of the likes of which are no longer are in a place of power to continue on with the results of like the economy of which we have today...and those of your ilk that no longer matter (other then a direct threat of the rest of humanities survival). So that makes you and your ilk to be pro death including to your own survival. If only if there was a law for polluters to be tried for attempted mass murder! Perhaps there needs to be a war with the real regimes of terror and weapons of mass destruction...
Thomas, you are SO RIGHT!!!!!!
"You can be sure that the United States will once again engage vigorously in these negotiations, and help lead the world toward a new era of global cooperation on climate change," he told hundreds of scientists, executives, governors and even foreign officials gathered in Los Angeles.
Do I have this right, Schwarzenegger is having a summit with hundreds of experts and officials flying in from around the world? How much fossil fuel is that going to burn up and send into our atmosphere????
all these science guys who beleive in global warming,these are the same science guys who claim we evloved from a tadpole,besides if there worried about something,it needs to be what is happening to all these honey bees that pollinate,with out pollination,this will get us way before GLOBAL WARMING WELL
Bush is still President? I didn't know that! I thought he walked out on us months ago...
Regardless of whether or not you believe that global warming or more precisely Climate Change is occurring, wouldn't you prefer to breathe clean air, drink clean water, eat safe food, retain pristine wilderness? Climate Change IS happening, and there is nothing we can do about it. We are living in an inter-glacial period, the Last Ice Age is called the "Last" ice age, because it is the last one to occur, not the last one that will ever occur. It is a natural process that has happened many times over the life of this earth, and will happen many more times. Glaciers ARE melting, just as they have been since the beginning of the inter-glacial period that is why the last ice age ended. They are melting faster, because they are smaller, put an ice cube on the table and watch what happens, it is simple physics. So let go of the "it is happening....it isn't happening" crap, and accept that YES Climate change is occurring, and yes it is natural. That does not matter, clean air, water and soil IS what matters!
Yes, climate change is happening. Scientists have proven it and we are in a period of warming. However, to believe that human activity does not contribute is naieve & dangerous. People are in denial if they think warming isn't real. We may very well be in a period of cyclical warming, but human activity is exacerbating the problem. Scientists can predict what will happen if warming continues. We may not be able to completely stop climate changes or warming. But we can do some damage contol and hopefully limit its effects. Theresa, you're right that clean air, water, and soil matters. But it's humans who are polluting it and not realizing just how far the effects extend.
gordy327, Did I say ANYWHERE in my post that human activities are not contributing? Whether or not science can prove that humans are contributing to climate change, is mute, The Fact is HUMANS are polluting the air water and soil, we are contaminating everything we depend on to survive. That has little to do with Climate Change and Everything to do with Environmental Justice. If we stopped adding carbon to the atmosphere this very moment that will not stop the climate from shifting, However if we do nothing but continue on our merry little way, we may not survive to see the next Ice Age.
I apologize if my post is a bit rude, but I am truly getting tired of every other post on newsvine being an attack to someone. Why can't there be a single topic on here that is Civil, Polite, Intelligent? Really People.>>>>>> IS IT THAT HARD TO BE NICE!!!!
1998 WARMEST YEAR ON RECORD, NOAA ANNOUNCES... no that cant be right that wasn't a bush year...does that mean he didn't cause the extinction of the dinosaurs
Bush probably doesn't believe dinosaurs were real or at least coexisted with man.
gosh,they have no solution for effective pollution control.while they are,shuffled in their fancy,heavy pollution black suvs/incl. buses. they are thinking of ways to curb the middle income and lower people to ride the bus.your right,tax and regulate is their mentality.I, we got ideas for all mankind. were moorons they say,they said that about all great minds.the only difference now.is they refuse to listen, because they think,their the know it alls, due to their money and education. all great minds had imagination.my grandmother use to say, the smarter they become,the more dumber they become with their decisions.I have witnessed this in my life time.no wonder were in deep...............................................................
1998 WARMEST YEAR ON RECORD, NOAA ANNOUNCES... no that cant be right that wasn't a bush year...does that mean he didn't cause the extinction of the dinosaurs
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gordy327
- Wed Nov 19, 2008 8:29 AM EST
Bush probably doesn't believe dinosaurs were real or at least coexisted with man.
Regardless of whether or not you believe that global warming or more precisely Climate Change is occurring, wouldn't you prefer to breathe clean air, drink clean water, eat safe food, retain pristine wilderness? Climate Change IS happening, and there is nothing we can do about it. We are living in an inter-glacial period, the Last Ice Age is called the "Last" ice age, because it is the last one to occur, not the last one that will ever occur. It is a natural process that has happened many times over the life of this earth, and will happen many more times. Glaciers ARE melting, just as they have been since the beginning of the inter-glacial period that is why the last ice age ended. They are melting faster, because they are smaller, put an ice cube on the table and watch what happens, it is simple physics. So let go of the "it is happening....it isn't happening" crap, and accept that YES Climate change is occurring, and yes it is natural. That does not matter, clean air, water and soil IS what matters!
The K–T boundary; also marked as ‘Cretaceous–Tertiary extinction event’ causing the cooling on the earth; thus causing the end of the Cretaceous period that saw the demise of the dinosaurs of the Mesozoic Era, thus giving birth to a new era; the Cenozoic Era. The Cenozoic Era is the most recent of the three classic of geological eras and covers the period from 65.5 million years ago to the present. The Cenozoic Era is ongoing and is the era of which we live and evolved to exist in this climate. We never coexisted with the dinosaurs as they are two entirely different eras or entirely different environments in time. We as a species and most if not all other species cannot survive in the environments of the era of the dinosaurs lived, just as why you don’t see living dinosaurs today living in the Cenozoic Era....our era of which we live...that is coming to a end do to humanity mimicking intense volcanic activity...causing the Global Warming...thus causing the end of our Cenozoic Era...thus causing our mass species extinction including our selves...by our own hands. Again; this is not at all a natural environmental shift do to a natural occurrence of the nature of the Earth...the Solar System...the Universe...and or the Galaxy.
Okay, lets experiment, lets pretend that Kobe gases are really a problem.
make Chicago, New York, and the other fossil fuel hogs on the east side of the Mississippi, adopt and eat the expense of the Kobe recommendations, yesterday. if it is efficient and measurable, who wouldn't sign on? if America is the big Kobe gas factory, and more than half our population is within 200 miles of the east coast, a five or ten percent decrease in Kobe gas would be measurable in two to four years. Gee, if America could get congress to shut-up for twenty minutes a day and take a bus from DC to their State when they are let out for reccess, that with Kobe stack emission commandments would result in an exponential drop of Kobe gases and elimination of zillions of tons of troublesome hot air per year.
what..no takers from the mass of the US population generating most of the Kobe gases? didn't think so. okay, how about we take the Al Gore-Al Frankin-mikel moore green therory as a model. oh..wait..the prophets of temperature doom are bigger energy hogs than any 20000 non-millionare contemporaries. hey political zombies, the energy issue is not akin to a poop sandwich from which we all must take a bit. you all take a few bites first. if it works, whalaa biomass just turned into a steak sandwich.
the real issue is not Kobe gas emissions. we will run out of coal, natural gas, and oil long before the earth convulses and rids itself of people. global warming will be a non-issue before the end of the 1980 generation. the real issue is what to replace fossil fuel with? like i tell my kids, the United States either starts building ten large nuclear power plants per year for the next 30 years or kids, buy a cow. because you will be using manure to heat your homes, cook your food, and provide light. the flow of manure from DC will have slowed to a trickle by then. besides, and to their credit the Mongols have used manure-the real stuff, for centuries. one or the other alternatives must happen. besides, fellow American's we have already collected every atom of cheap uranium and plutonium, enought to last us for ten centuries of sustained energy production at an annual growth of twenty percent per year. i'd say Kobe is myoptic and a bit out of date.
however, i must congratulate my eocwazi (wazi=world national socialism) friends. collectively that movement has constipated any course to nuclear energy. if i did not know better it almost looks like the ecowazi movement is a shabby puppet with big fossil fuel's hand up its tail pipe.
all the ecowazi dialoge, Mr. Obama's included, seems to suggest that humanity is simply too stupid to build and operate nuclear power plants. okay, the Russians screwed up, once. they won't make that mistake again. the reality that-non-fossil, non-nuclear energy, that alternative energy is good idea borders on the delusional. it is make believe, wishful thinking, technocratically imature thinking. wind, solar, magic energy is and will always be less efficient than the dirtest contemporary power plant, assuming of course the devices could be made without creating Kobe gas. they can't of course but why complicate the issue with the truth?
i'd rather BO, as Mr. Obama will be known as president (remember GW, JFK, FDR) give 10,000 one dollar notes to the 60 percent of the tax payers who support the government. we will burn some during the winter in super efficient stoves and reduce Kobe gases by a factor of two in four years or less.
we need to learn Kobeonics-ebonics without the intelligent, colorful metaphors, and interpret the Kobe wording properly. the Kobe plan is to use fossil fuel as long as possible, make 10,000 human perversely rich, and assign to "natural selection" the excess population. but we-Kobe janissaries, won't use "nuclear" energy to stave off economic turbulence (like today) or save the general population. it is all about the millionares rice bowl not yours, mine or ours.
Your ignorance and arrogance is remarkable but yet also not so astounding and your message reflects to that message very well.
So much for the development of intelligence over the course of evolution for some! I think for some people that they just came to the limits of ones own intelligence and are incapable of further evolving to a higher level of understanding and reasoning then others. Much like the different branches of Homo type species, from the extinct species of Homo floresiensis to the Kenyanthropus platyops gave way to a more intelligent species to the Homo neanderthalensis, a subspecies of humans of limited intelligence making way for other more intelligent species of the Homo geno...and so on...and so on...and so on...and so on until the demise of our Cenozoic era. Overall one can argue that humanity self chosen ignorance is just plane and simple...insanity at best.
Bunch of freaking idiots with their hate and ignorance.
Bunch of freaking idiots with their hate and ignorance.
Tell me about it...I can't believe there are so many who have fallen for this scam of AGW.
Well if I would be so bold in making an observation to Kim's statement is that I believe she may have been referring to the people of your ilk ‘CCdesign’.
What drives people to not want to understand the workings of environmental changes from the history of the Earth when global warming is a top issue backed by numerous scientific factual data? What is wrong with these people that don’t choose to educate themselves on the topic and all of the evidence available? Instead they choose to come in here spewing statements with willfully knowing little too no understanding of the issue at of those very statements that comes out of their mouths supported by not a ounce of creditable factual data to prove of which what they say to be true or accurate. The facts is based on my observations is because of what these people say is only a belief, or a theory with absolute zero evidence supporting their theory/hypothesis and the only thing that they have is the backing of others that are the minority with that theory in which is still only a theory that of fictional data. So therefore my conclusion on the topic at hand remains of that supported by factual data...until otherwise disproved by an exponential majority of opposing proven factual data.
Well if I would be so bold in making an observation to Kim's statement is that I believe she may have been referring to the people of your ilk ‘CCdesign’.
Really…no sh1t Sherlock. It’s called sarcasm.
What drives people to not want to understand the workings of environmental changes from the history of the Earth when global warming is a top issue backed by numerous scientific factual data?
Really it doesn’t matter what the “deniers” submit as data or their opinion, you Kool-Aid pushers just brush it off as big-oil financed or you deflect attention and attack the messenger. My particular favorite tactic from the pushers is to question the background of the data reviewer and claiming that climate science is not their area of expertise. Anyone who took even a introduction to statistics knows that you don’t need a background in any area to properly review data…a background in statistical analysis is all you need to come to a conclusion or ‘consensus”. Economists, for some reason are usually best at this regardless of the subject data being reviewed. And frankly, analysis from outside the subject matter tends to be less bias then those with something to loose or gain. Now, who stands to benefit the most from the billions upon billions of dollars going toward this fraud? Certainty isn’t me and my denier bunch. Scientist who dare to question the validity of the ‘data’ are fired, blackballed and ostracized for not going with the ‘consensus’ tells me all I need to know about how well your theory would stand up in a real scientific review. Any real scientist with a valid theory would at the least, entertain any and all opinions, not try to suppress those dissenting views. Actions always speak louder than words.
Evolution is backed up by a lot of scientific data as well. But it is still just a theory and there a plenty of those who don’t’ believe it either, but I guess they fall into the ‘flat earth’ category. And from a non-scientific standpoint, when someone or a group attempts to jam something down your throat and wants so desperately for you to swallow it…it is almost certainly false. Tell me, how badly is it eating you knowing that uneducated people like me and 95% of the planet won’t swallow your drivel? There is no arguing with your ‘ilk’ you just don’t want to listen because you know deep deep down, your wrong. And your leader, Gore the bore is making money hand over fist while you and his other minions reap nothing on the greatest scam perpetrated on the public (aside from the dishwasher) while you toil away on these boards…can you hear him laughing…ha ha ha ha! You, Al Jim Jones Gore, and all your other sheeple are frauds. But of course I don’t have any scientific factual data to back that up now do I?
Although carbon dioxide is capable of raising the Earth's overall temperature, the IPCC's predictions of catastrophic temperature increases produced by carbon dioxide have been challenged by many scientists. In particular, the importance of water vapor is frequently overlooked by environmental activists and by the media. The large temperature increases predicted by many computer models are unphysical and inconsistent with results obtained by BASIC measurements. Skepticism is warranted when considering computer-generated projections of global warming that cannot even predict existing observations.
BTW, What ever happened to the hole in the ozone and the urgent need to do something about it?
"My particular favorite tactic from the pushers is to question the background of the data reviewer and claiming that climate science is not their area of expertise. Anyone who took even a introduction to statistics knows that you don't need a background in any area to properly review data…a background in statistical analysis is all you need to come to a conclusion or 'consensus".
So you are saying here is that someone that has no or little understanding in the field (such as yourself) is able to come to a conclusion that should be taken seriously. I did not know I can get a job or inform someone on how to build rockets when I have no education and expertise in doing so.
"Scientist who dare to question the validity of the 'data' are fired, blackballed and ostracized for not going with the 'consensus' tells me all I need to know about how well your theory would stand up in a real scientific review. Any real scientist with a valid theory would at the least, entertain any and all opinions, not try to suppress those dissenting views. Actions always speak louder than words".
You mean; like those scientist that were threaten, fired, blackballed and ostracized by those that the 'consensus' of the Bush administration hired, to keep those scientist from testifying of man made global worming and to present such scientific data before the committee... those scientist? However they did indeed did testify that they were threaten, fired, blackballed and ostracized by your party.
"Evolution is backed up by a lot of scientific data as well. But it is still just a theory and there a plenty of those who don't' believe it either, but I guess they fall into the 'flat earth' category".
Yeah...I forgot, we unlike the rest of the species that evolved were put here from God snapping his fingers and we remarkably appeared from nothingness, making us not a Homo geno species or for that fact not a species at all that eats, drinks, @!$%#s, breathes, reproduce and made-up of like every other biological organisms on this earth does. Just like the big bang theory is just another form of religion and us as a species and the universe is as a result of a big explosion that came from nothingness....then suddenly all this stuff appeared. So if there was nothing before the universe and something can come from nothing then one would have to ask the question if something can indeed come from nothing then how was your god created.
"And from a non-scientific standpoint, when someone or a group attempts to jam something down your throat and wants so desperately for you to swallow it…it is almost certainly false. Tell me, how badly is it eating you knowing that uneducated people like me and 95% of the planet won't swallow your drivel"?
Like what you and your ilk does? I don't care if you want to live with your head so far up your ass where you can't see a glimmer of the light of day by your own admission but if ones self chosen ignorance is a threat to my and others health/life is when something has to be done about it. Amazing how you and your ilk accuse others of the very thing you and your ilk are guilty of! As for your 95% is based on the other 5% chance that you did not pull that number out of your ass.
"Gore the bore is making money hand over fist while you and his other minions reap nothing on the greatest scam perpetrated on the public (aside from the dishwasher) while you toil away on these boards…can you hear him laughing…ha ha ha ha! You, Al Jim Jones Gore, and all your other sheeple are frauds. But of course I don't have any scientific factual data to back that up now do I"?
Overall your meaningless drivel is based on zero understanding and of expertise in climate science and you come to the conclusion based of the true fraudsters (such as yourself and your ilk), that global warming is some kind of worldwide huge conspiracy. Despite the fact that what can literally be seen as a result of global warming is a figment of our imaginations. Just as evolution and the fossils of past extinct species is not real either...right? You know if you come out of your cave you will see there is a whole world out there to explore and trust me when I say that you will not fall off the earth if you go too far out to sea... unfortunately. If a sheep came before you I bet you would believe it was a wolf... literally, if a man told you God said so and that the evidence is in a book written by a man. Also I hate to inform you but there is no such thing as a man by a flying sled delivering gifts on the 24th of December, gifts that were made by little people with pointy ears.
"In particular, the importance of water vapor is frequently overlooked by environmental activists and by the media".
So you name one of the greenhouse gasses and purposely leave out others that work in conjunction with another.
"BTW, What ever happened to the hole in the ozone and the urgent need to do something about it"?
That says it all on how much you care to know about the issue! You know after global warming could no longer be ignored by Bush and his cronies they finally gave in and embraced it to be real. That being said his understanding and reasoning seams to be greater then that of your ilk and of your own ... making your ilk and you about as intelligent as... hmm... Lemmings!
So in translation of all what you said and that is; you offer next to nothing substantial to support your claim that man made global warming is a myth but you state it anyway, in that regards which makes your statements worth next to nothing.
It would have been shorter!
Deflection and attacking the messenger. Just like I said....thanks for the small validation.
visit to learn about the pollution caused by outdoor wood boilers
All you that beleive in gobal warming basically are not looking at the facts. The Sun has a 90 year cycle recorded by the red wood trees in California of 45 warminging and 45 cooling, and guess what we are in the 45 warming and about at its peak. So in ten years we will be talking about gobal cooling and what we are going to be doing about that. Futher more the earth controls the amount of CO2 in the air. If there is to much it creates more organic matter if there is not enough it gets rid of organic matter. We actually do not have enough CO2 in the atmosphere. If we did we could get get corn yeilds above 300 bushels per acre because the corn plant when it canopies is out of CO2 by noon. Another big fact is that we could survive on this planet without any trees at all. Unless you bury a tree to decompose it uses as much O2 as it has produced or more to decompose. If we want to use are taxes dollars smartly we should save the ocean because that is where all of our O2 comes from. The plankton, algae, etc. when they die go to the bottom of the ocean to decompose and do not use any O2 in the atmosphere to decompose. People should know the real truth and not just what somebody says without the proof to back it up. Most of what i wrote can be found on wikipedia.
Survive W/O any trees at all? NOT!!!! I'll take a trained scientist's word over Wiki anyday. Try again.
I am so glad to see this issue is going to be addressed and actions taken to reverse the destructive result of this all too real phenomenon. The ones in denial are consumed by greed and insist we remain the prisoners of using 100 year technology to run our cars, our factories and so on. We need to become 21st century thinkers and innovators before the next world war is over WATER, not oil.
People,get on board-PLEASE and become part of the solution, not the problem. How many more hurricanes, wildfires, droughts and natural disasters can we handle? New Orleans has been under water already since Katrina. How many more cities before people see the light? Over-population and consumption is depleting our natural resources faster then they can "readjust" themselves. Oil is NOT going to last forever and drill, drill, drill is just delaying the inevitable. The Gulf of Mexico is a dead ecosystem and our coral reefs are DYING. Wake up!!!!
Obama's energy policy is only ONE of the many reasons I voted for him and I applaud him and Schwarzenegger's plans for pledging to take on this issue. The US is a global leader and if we get on board, we'll pave the way for other countries to do the same which HOPEFULLY will include China. This is the ONLY planet we have and when IT goes, we ALL go. If the government stops wasting BILLIONS of dollars to look at rocks on Mars, we COULD have invested some of that in cleaning up our rivers and lakes for starters AND making our industry cleaner.
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